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To infinity... and beyond - thoughts on wikiloops future

To infinity... and beyond - thoughts on wikiloops future

posted on #1
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2894
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
Our fellow member MySounds kinda asked me to share my vision of what lies ahead for the wikiloops project, so, here I sit challenging myself into this :)

Mind, this all goes back to the transparency report for 2023 which I posted some days ago, too, so, I'll boldly assume you have had a look into that.

I made mention of some technical improvements which have been worked on in 2023, and part of my vision for the wikiloops project has to deal with such technical issues, so, let me start from that side.

Invisible to all of you, the wikiloops code that runs this platform is undergoing a transformation, and after one and a half year of cleanup and restructuring,
we are slowly getting closer to a point where the project is again maintainable by professional standards, at which we will be able to improve things on the surface with ease.
We are taking time with that process, as both me and my wingman karuma enjoy the freedom to work without pressure.
We like to spend time discussing ideal solutions and could probably nerd about for a couple of more years, but I believe both of us are also eager to get to those more visible things.

Now, what will surface?
I believe we will finally see a re-design of the current interface, as that offers lots of room for improvement.
I do not believe there will be giant new features which would turn wikiloops into something different,
I rather believe we will re-organize and improve the given functionality, to let it appear more self-explanatory.
Let's be honest - todays wikiloops interface has it's clunky areas, does not follow any consequent style guide and sometimes reacts in unexpected ways -
most of you do not notice these glitches any longer, as you have found your ways around them, but that's what needs fixing first.

I did re-design the new member registration form this year, and watching the number of daily registrations rise after that change has proven that smoothening the user experience has a dramatic effect.
The act of signing up as a new member itself has not changed one bit, but the different presentation of the process obviously makes a huge difference.

Based on that experience, I am confident it will be possible to increase the engagement rate of new visitors further, as wikiloops becomes a bit smoother on the surface.

Today, wikiloops appears a lot more complicated than it really is, take that away and people will stick around longer, that is a belief me and karuma share.

This is a long read anyways, so let's have a few more lines recapping options - what could one add to this platform that would really make sense?
Some things would make sense to improve the budget situation, but wikiloops is a community for people who enjoy making music...
One could add a "learning center" type of section where people could engage in tutoring and knowledge transfer in a more educational way than wikiloops does so far.
One could add a gear review section and more or less join the line of those advertising gear.
Sure, wikiloops could do with some sort of gear marketplace of its own.
We could also finally start to hold monthly competitions and curate the best of the fest, possibly offering fame and fortune...
All nice and well, but since this here is a recap of my personal vision,
I'm taking the freedom to say no to all of that.

The core wikiloops mission is about letting people interact musically across borders, we value the experience of the individuals creative experiment over objective musical excellence. (Man, what a statement, I'm on a roll...)
Don't get me wrong - i like excellence in music, but wikiloops is about pushing that record button and doing it, no matter if that is high quality recording gear,
and without asking if you can read sheet music
.
I like quality gear, and i wish i had more of a musical education, but I do not envision wikiloops benefiting from trying to become the single source of all that.

As you can probably tell by now, I am at peace with wikiloops being a niche website for people like, er, you, who like being part of this pool of relaxed creatives that has gathered on wikiloops to play it their way.
If I had investors on my back critically eyeing the wikiloops numbers and waiting for huge returns, I'd be in a different position,
but I am quite sure I am a happier man having operated this project on a community funded budget, and I am going to try continuing that.

This is also a quite pragmatic position, leaving me with the freedom to pursue any work on wikiloops when I can spare the time.
Being a family dad has come with its responsibilities, and I believe we all can be happy I managed to let go of trying to squeeze a family income out of wikiloops.
Yes, I would still love to have that option, but I'm not going to wreck what we all have built here over that.

Let's talk about the current budget for a few sentences.
To operate this digital enterprise which is acting 24/7/365, globally, from a german based old-world legal business entity - on a budget of 24k/year?

You'd have to be totally insane to do that, as it requires finding volunteers for just about everything.
It also takes someone to take care of all the jobs nobody else wanted.
If a long term vision for wikiloops should involve the project surviving a moment where I might choose (or have to) discontinue my commitment,
then we better make sure the annual budget is above 100k a year.
At least that would feel like there is a slight chance to find someone to steer this boat.
If I was asked to operate wikiloops on such a budget, I would not say no, as it would allow me to work full throttle on the project and bring in some outside expertise, too.
Having a limited budget does sometimes lead to awful compromises, that situation would most likely end around the six digits.

So, am I saying we are actually flying at 24% of a healthy long term budget? And am I also saying there are no giant plans for even bigger changes?
Yes and yes. I see your raised eyebrows from here friends, hear me out.

Yes, we even missed the low budget mark last year, so let me give you the two scenarios that are on the table right now:

Plan A:
If the positive trend in new member registrations continues, the budget situation will improve in the course of the next two quarters - if then people keep supporting the loops.
The most interesting group of people to convince supporting wikiloops is a great idea are those who are new and are posting their first tracks -
if they can be led into that creative flow experience that has let you guys churn out another whopping 24k tracks in 2023, then we will overcome the budget issue.
One simple solution to try to push that a little would be to add a random "new members first track" to everybodys news feed,
just to make sure our new members get some extra first feedback.
We all tend to get stuck in our newsfeeds bubbles, so it might be good to break that up a little.

Now, a second line of strategy will indeed go towards acquiring sponsors/partnerships, as rootshell and others suggested over in the transparency report thread.
I have tried that some years ago and had a hard time finding interested parties, but as the whole internet marketing situation has evolved quite dramatically, it might be good to start another round of that.
If anyone could offer help reaching out to potentially interested companies, that would be a great feat.
I have had a hard time getting a foot on the ground with US companies back then, maybe we have someone who feels capable of making some connections?
If that is you, please do get in touch :)
Mind, I am talking about decent and relevant advertising, no need to fear needing an adblocker on wikiloops any time soon.
Speaking of online advertising, I am tempted to rant about YouTube and others increase in intrusive ads here, let me cut it down to stating we will not interrupt anyone's music with ads.

Plan B:
If all else fails, we'll eventually have to raise the monthly membership fees, simple as that.
wikiloops membership upgrades prices have been untouched since 2017, so it might as well be fair to raise them.
I'd actually like to get rid of the intermediate silver status, as it does not make me feel good to not-offer simple and fun things like the profile image gallery or album creation to those silver supporters.
It was a decision we took back then, I'm not sure if that silver/gold distinction really makes a lot of sense tbh.

So, bottom line for 2024:
I am expecting for things to at least slightly improve, budget wise. With every supporter joining, and with any sponsor won we will be one step further,
but we will also need to find a healthy balance between growth, "sell-out" and preserving the wikiloops communities character.

I daresay some investment people would look at wikiloops and think like this: "Just throw in amount X in marketing budget, to increase users by factor Z and boom there is your prospering business" -
and yes, that will work with a lot of products, but it might as well wipe out the homely feeling of the wikiloops community.
It only takes one grumpy idiot on the shoutbox on wikiloops to temporarily turn this place into something ugly. We love to keep it friendly around here, but try the same with a surge of advertised-in people?
I would be very, very careful about that.
I believe the wikiloops community can grow, but better slowly, and maybe with some slight changes in functionality that may help preserve the wikiloops feel.

I'll give you a drastic example:
I have been wondering if wikiloops is in need of some simple "avoid this user" button, which could be used to simply hide any contributions by some user, across the full board of comments, music, shoutbox, everything.
That might be one thing to install, thinking of future community growth. Maybe it will take this type of "active member co-moderation", as we can not expect the volunteer mods to clean up everything all the time.
Yes, we are trying, and we will continue, don't get me wrong on that.

Let me round this up.
Did I just say I'll continue to fly this spaceship on a microscopic budget rather than finally breaking thru with the new TikTok called wikiloops?
Yes, that pretty much sums it up. I am whistling on the bridge as well.
We have a ton of music loaded, so I'll avoid risky asteroid belts.
Maybe that means we'll run out of fuel one day, and guess what - I'll be the fool shutting off the lights and taking the blame if that happens.
Maybe we can establish a healthy way to generate some fuel as we go. The mission continues.

There are things you can do to help.
- spread the word out there. Let people know about wikiloops on and offline, personal referrals matter!
- offer help moderating or taking on one of the many tasks (like checking new members initial music contributions)
- give a hand making some marketing partnerships happen - we have thomann, there is space for more partners like that
- give me a signal of support. It matters. Sometimes, I dream of a life with less than 200 mails to check. Trust I am trying my best, even tho you might be waiting for a response for ever.
- tell your friend at the XY-foundation there is this crazy music project. Throw cash at the 'loops, we'll turn it into music and comradery, promised.
+11
posted on #2
MySounds Supporter
Posts: 206
Joined: Mar 19, 2022
Lot`s of things to consider and think through but I like the approach.
Willing to up my hand up to provide some sort of support.
I`ll try to get my thoughts written down tomorrow.
+1
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posted on #3
rootshell Supporter
Posts: 334
Joined: Jul 4, 2020
a few days ago you posted about what one would say to an audience of 70K musicians...here's mine: "if we all gave a dollar a year, that's $70K right there :o " :)

all kidding aside, i'll definitely try and share more wikiloops info via social media apps, etc.

any thoughts on an API to embed music on a site, a phone system (hold music), etc (a pay service of course)? just another random thought :)
+1
posted on #4
zedders Supporter
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan 30, 2021
The Thomann thing is interesting. What do they get out of it? I have never noticed them having adverts or even the barest mention anywhere.

So here's an idea that I notice some youtube reviewers do - they have a link to sites such as Thomann - if you use the link when you buy stuff from them they get a cut of the sale. I've spent about £650 at thomann in the last year and would have been very pleased for Wikiloops to profit from that.
+1
posted on #5
zedders Supporter
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan 30, 2021
rootshell wrote:
a few days ago you posted about what one would say to an audience of 70K musicians...here's mine: "if we all gave a dollar a year, that's $70K right there :o " :)

all kidding aside, i'll definitely try and share more wikiloops info via social media apps, etc.

any thoughts on an API to embed music on a site, a phone system (hold music), etc (a pay service of course)? just another random thought :)

But... you have to be careful just who you are attracting. I use some forums that are to be honest rather overrun by A'holes. I keep quiet, I don't want those sorts spoiling this haven.

O the subject of the site being difficult to use I just do not agree at all. It's worth remembering that most people here use a DAW and if they can manage that then wikiloops is a breeze.
+1
posted on #6
TeeGee Supporter
Posts: 1854
Joined: Sep 27, 2014
Richard my friend,
I am probably not the most objective person here on Wikiloops for obvious reasons, but this project may have attacked your bank account for many years, but on your Karma account statement it states that you are a millionaire ;) .

I agree, an improvement of the new user experience whereby their tracks appear on many veteran users feed would be a good idea, maybe they will get to know more Loopers that way and get some more feedback.

Adding a small increase of the monthly membership cost would be fair, Wikiloops is probably the only site on earth that has not adjusted at all for 6 years. And everybody knows this is not for profit, this is for staying afloat.

And yes, if anyone can help finding sponsors, why not? Or know someone who can drum up support for the site, that would be cool. Imagine if Paul McCartney would mention Wikiloops on his tiktoc account ;)

And finally: I have a good life at the moment, I can spare some cash so I will donate some extra right now, gives me a warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction. Peace!
+5
posted on #7
BB6
Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Aug 31, 2022
zedders wrote:
The Thomann thing is interesting. What do they get out of it? I have never noticed them having adverts or even the barest mention anywhere.

So here's an idea that I notice some youtube reviewers do - they have a link to sites such as Thomann - if you use the link when you buy stuff from them they get a cut of the sale. I've spent about £650 at thomann in the last year and would have been very pleased for Wikiloops to profit from that.


There's a Thomann link on the welcome page. Dick, does this work like the page (that I can no longer find) where if you clicked a Thomann link, Thomann would know and give a donation if you bought something from them? Like zedders, I think most musicians here would click such sponsored links, especially as Thomann is already perhaps the best value for most musical items. Perhaps needs a design change somehow, don't know how though.
+1
posted on #8
rootshell Supporter
Posts: 334
Joined: Jul 4, 2020
is wikiloops nonprofit in the US, like for tax purposes? another thought, maybe morbid, but hey, nobody has mentioned it...if someone wanted to donate/will money to wikiloops upon expiration/deceased, what would be appropriate way of having that done?
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posted on #9
zedders Supporter
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan 30, 2021
BB6 wrote:
zedders wrote:
The Thomann thing is interesting. What do they get out of it? I have never noticed them having adverts or even the barest mention anywhere.

So here's an idea that I notice some youtube reviewers do - they have a link to sites such as Thomann - if you use the link when you buy stuff from them they get a cut of the sale. I've spent about £650 at thomann in the last year and would have been very pleased for Wikiloops to profit from that.


There's a Thomann link on the welcome page.
Not on my computer there isn't. I've tried logging out and clicking the wiki logo which does have a welcome message but there is no Thomann link/logo/nothing.
posted on #10
zedders Supporter
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan 30, 2021
BB6 wrote:
zedders wrote:
The Thomann thing is interesting. What do they get out of it? I have never noticed them having adverts or even the barest mention anywhere.

So here's an idea that I notice some youtube reviewers do - they have a link to sites such as Thomann - if you use the link when you buy stuff from them they get a cut of the sale. I've spent about £650 at thomann in the last year and would have been very pleased for Wikiloops to profit from that.


There's a Thomann link on the welcome page. Dick, does this work like the page (that I can no longer find) where if you clicked a Thomann link, Thomann would know and give a donation if you bought something from them? Like zedders, I think most musicians here would click such sponsored links, especially as Thomann is already perhaps the best value for most musical items. Perhaps needs a design change somehow, don't know how though.
After some EXTREME searching on the site I find Wikiloops already has this affiliate link thing with both Thomann and Amazon!
https://www.wikiloops.com/shopping.php
Dick - This is crazy - you should push this to somewhere it's impossible to miss. 2% of my £650 = £13. OK, it's not massive money but the point is you didn't get it because these links are hidden away in a backwater I bet nobody ever looks at. Actually it's worse than that - I can't remember how I got to that page and using the menus including "support wikiloops" I can't find it again. Madness!
posted on #11
zedders Supporter
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan 30, 2021
Found it - bottom of the forums main page. This needs associating with supporting wikiloops, I don't think the forum has many users and who scrolls to the bottom?

If you get a cut from ANYTHING we might buy through Amazon, much as I hate Amazon and try my hardest never to buy through them, I'm a minority - you could be missing out on stacks of cash through hiding that particular link away. Yeah, I know you didn't deliberately hide it but you might as well have.
+1
posted on #12
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2894
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
zedders wrote:
After some EXTREME searching on the site I find Wikiloops already has this affiliate link thing with both Thomann and Amazon!
https://www.wikiloops.com/shopping.php
... Madness!


Summed up well :)
The only other occasion one could possibly come across that link is spotting it on ...
*drumroll*
... the goodbye-page, the one one sees after logging out (which, obviously, few of you ever do)

I'll skip the long history on why these links ended up there, and yes, they need to be brought into immediate sight.
I feel similar about amazon like you, but as they have the widest possible reach and cover a wider scope of products, so that might be the way to go as well, with a slight teeth-grind and a sigh.

zedders wrote:
The Thomann thing is interesting. What do they get out of it? I have never noticed them having adverts or even the barest mention anywhere.

They are mentioned as our download sponsor by a small banner that is included in the download dialog, I remember telling them people would look for the download button, but they liked the spot and went for it.

rootshell wrote:
is wikiloops nonprofit in the US, like for tax purposes? another thought, maybe morbid, but hey, nobody has mentioned it...if someone wanted to donate/will money to wikiloops upon expiration/deceased, what would be appropriate way of having that done?

wikiloops is a foreign entity to US taxation, as the company resides in Germany and has no offices on US soil. wikiloops media UG (haftungsbeschränkt) is a German limited-like form of small business entity with no accreditation as being a non-profit. Hence I am not eligible to issue tax decuctible donation receipts as a classic non-profit could. Give me that real budget and I'd get it there, it would be a lot of paperwork to handle the transition.
What would be needed to put the project in one's will? I think that should be possible regardless of non-profit status, you are assigning part of your heritage to some legal entity. I don't think it matters if that is a non-profit on the receiving side, but I am no attorney.

TeeGee wrote:
Imagine if Paul McCartney would mention Wikiloops on his tiktoc account ;)

I reached out to Richard Bona, Cory Wong and Victor Wooten in 2023 ... one of them actually replied,
but I am afraid I failed to convince (or those folks are as busy as me and don't get around to their pile of mails if not at the end of the year).
Cory Wong actually has a known history of attracting Dave Coz attention by letting all his fans bomb Daves social media with hints at Cory (who ended up being invited to daves musical cruise), but I don't really dare to try to pull that off on him ;)
You do what you like in your free time, I'll whistle innocently.
+4
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posted on #13
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2894
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
So, from what I have learned tonight, it should be OK to state that they also sell Recording Equipment on Amazon, since this is a website about recording music, where the mention is within relevant content (we were just discussing where one can shop gear, right?).

I'll leave the attached image without further comment... things are complicated some times ;)
Dick attached the following image:


posted on #14
LittleWing Supporter
Posts: 597
Joined: Sep 19, 2018
I have been merciless on Facebook recording groups mentioning Wikiloops. I openly invite random musicians to check it out.It usually will get 3-4 people asking questions anytime I do.

Dick- I do feel you should take a good look at explaining the “supporting member” page and the donation page as well.
Currently there are two pages for donating to become a supporting member.

The newer donation page leads people to a monthly subscription with two choices and thats it.
Whereas the older one you can do a one time $5, 10, 20 donation which gets you a couple of weeks.That page also allows you to gift a member .

Please DO NOT get rid of that older page.
Every year at Christmas time I randomly buy people a month of supporting member status so I use the old donation page to do that.

But more importantly , this year honestly I have had three people who were brand new members, tight on cash , and on the fence, stick around by pointing them to a smaller one time donation .

All three times they were brand new and had something interrupt their first upload because they were "non support status"
I sent $5 to gift them support status and they were able to upload. After explaining to me they were tight I showed them the older page which includes one time smaller donations . I looked ten minutes ago and all three are still here and uploading.

There are some who are on a budget and the newer page causes a hesitation I have definitely noticed. People on budgets get hesitant seeing a monthly auto recurring expense when things are tight.

Please don’t remove that older page , it comes handy when gifting someone a few weeks to try out the Loops. Year before last you got almost $200 from me in gift memberships. Not sure about this year but Id bet $60-80 in gift memberships. I cant do that on newer support page.

So being I have lured people here , the hangup I see is in the presentation of donating and the benefit of supporting status. If something goes wrong on their first upload and maybe they cancelled mid upload because they forgot the title, they become frustrated if they are trying out for the first time because its unclear to them that they get only one upload a day.
I had to explain that three times in December. Then the newer donation page kind of raised a flag with all three as their uploads didnt work yet they need to commit to a monthly to get it to work.

Thats when I just gifted all three to show them it worked and explained non support status.

All that is in one of the Xmas forum posts in the lounge. I believe TEEGEE saw it as well.

So no matter how you get people here, also check that non support members can still upload if they fudge a title or back out of page maybe. People are generally going to fudge their first upload but if they cancel and thats their one time shot for the day, its just going to go downhill from there and theyll just say "Im frustrated, Im going back to the other website..." Know what I mean?
+4
posted on #15
TeeGee Supporter
Posts: 1854
Joined: Sep 27, 2014
Hmmm maybe giving new members a free couple of uploads or even three to begin with, and then continue on the 1 per week would solve this. And hopefully once they did those they will see the light :)
+4
posted on #16
LittleWing Supporter
Posts: 597
Joined: Sep 19, 2018
TeeGee wrote:
Hmmm maybe giving new members a free couple of uploads or even three to begin with, and then continue on the 1 per week would solve this. And hopefully once they did those they will see the light :)


Those freaking newbs always fudge things up.

I see it as a presentation issue. Established members will go no problem to the subscription as it eliminates donating every few weeks . Once you are here to stay that makes sense.

Newbs are still trying to figure things out and making mistakes and are still used to the old website they came from. They are still in trial mode for at least minimum two or three.

You don’t have to give it away free but the first song upload needs to be more forgiving.
Also the economies everywhere are crap now so you will get more people on tighter budgets.

I have observed a first timer fail their first upload then they are fighting the one per day limit afterward. It does happen often enough to look at .It’s easier for them to just go back where they came from .

Again- if you advertise the Loops and explain it is jamming with others and building songs globally , people like it and you’ll get questions and comments. Inviting people and explaining briefly what Wikiloops is does generate interest in music groups. So that isn’t any problem.

I feel the front door needs to be more inviting then where they came from and whacking a first timer with a subscription when they’re having issues and learning still is something that I’ve seen more then once as a speed bump.

People who I’ve brought here I’ve had to explain supporting member status and donations more than anything else. Even the song tree structure is easier to grasp looking around.Donations and support have always been largest amount of time to explain.

Around thanksgiving a few newbs were having problems with the first upload thing and all three were hesitant with the subscription but had no issue with a quickie one time low dollar donation to check it out.

Wikiloops is like crack cocaine. You got to lure me them in and get them addicted first then they keep coming back.

It has to be inviting and easier to stay then to go back to where they were . But that doesn’t mean give away everything free. It just needs to be more well thought out and welcoming .

The fine line to all of this is Wikiloops offers a quality product/service online.
You want people to pay something .
Paying creates value.

Basic marketing psychology dictates people respect and take care of things they pay for.
It keeps the trolls and troublemakers out.
A fine steakhouse will never discount its food yet people will pack the place and pay top dollar if it’s good and people feel they are getting their moneys worth when actually they are paying more then product /service is worth without the resturant.Paying creates value.Delivering quality creates want and desire.

At the same time you want to be inviting and acknowledge it’s a big deal for these newbs to migrate here and while we are so used to uploading it is a big deal and a learning curve before someone new sees the quality and service being offered .

So new customers need to be allowed to easy access to see the benefits. I’m just stating it’s been observed newbs often stumble at the first upload while being asked to take the subscription. Thats right at the front door.

I do feel a third option on the subscription page for those on a limited budget would help. I kind of like Wikiloops isnt bombarded with offers of "pricing plans" but that third option would get more newbies who are unsure in here. Im not confident giving anything free is the answer. But making it easier to whip out the wallet if Im having trouble uploading while percieving Im getting a deal as an alternative to the subscription ...yes.

Also simply having a clear message that says "Non Supporting members are allowed only one upload per day, Donate to get unlimited uploads!" would help as there is confusion when they use that one upload up. They simply dont know as they havent read the FAQ.

The old donation page eliminated this issue as you were able to specify something within the budget much more easier.
+5
posted on #17
zedders Supporter
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan 30, 2021
LittleWing wrote:
TeeGee wrote:
Hmmm maybe giving new members a free couple of uploads or even three to begin with, and then continue on the 1 per week would solve this. And hopefully once they did those they will see the light :)


Those freaking newbs always fudge things up.
I did. The one a day thing passed me by, then I twigged, found it too limiting and bought a 3/6 month membership when I realised that must mean I liked it here. From my experience I'd say it does take a little time to get into the swing of wikiloops and see it's friendliness is actually real! I think because this aspect is so uncommon on the internet it's hard to believe to begin with.
+3
posted on #18
rootshell Supporter
Posts: 334
Joined: Jul 4, 2020
It took me a while to understand Wikiloops at first, the name didn't click with me, I would just randomly download a drum track for my at home jamming (I was searching for drum tracks on Google at the time). eventually I understood what was going on here and I signed up. it has become my escape and my enjoyment for the last couple of years. so I agree with newbs and making it more inviting...like a windowless van with 'free candy' on it would be nice :D
+3
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posted on #19
zedders Supporter
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan 30, 2021
rootshell wrote:
It took me a while to understand Wikiloops at first, the name didn't click with me, I would just randomly download a drum track for my at home jamming (I was searching for drum tracks on Google at the time). eventually I understood what was going on here and I signed up. it has become my escape and my enjoyment for the last couple of years. so I agree with newbs and making it more inviting...like a windowless van with 'free candy' on it would be nice :D
I came here in search of vocals to fit on the many unfinished tracks I'd made and was reminded that playing with others is more fun than playing with myself (ooer).
+3
posted on #20
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2894
Joined: Dec 30, 2010
LittleWing wrote:
You don’t have to give it away free but the first song upload needs to be more forgiving.
[...]
I feel the front door needs to be more inviting then where they came from and whacking a first timer with a subscription when they’re having issues and learning still is something that I’ve seen more then once as a speed bump.
[...]
It has to be inviting and easier to stay then to go back to where they were . But that doesn’t mean give away everything free. It just needs to be more well thought out and welcoming .

I absolutely agree with you on the above. The whole free-but-limited accounts limitations could probably do a re-think.

You managed to deliver high-density good observation, and your experience talking to those first timers is very very valuable to read - thank you very much for doing that AND sharing it here.

There are some tiny corrections which I'd like to offer tho, just to make sure we are not creating additional confusion here:
- first, the limits are 1 download per day, one upload per WEEK as a free member (this is not new, it has been like that for years)
- the different upgrade and donations pages are described correctly, but the upgrade page also offers a choice between one-time-payments and subscriptions, i would not make subscriptions the only option for the reasons you stated
- what you will not have seen is the final screen of the new registration procedure: New members are told that free will have limits right there, and are offered a $ 5 one time one month trial right there. That should at least take care of need to inform about the otherwise not-so-prominent limit rules you pointed at, but still, there is a lot of room for improvement.

I'd like to take the "where to set the paywall" discussion to a separate thread some time if you like, I'd be very interested to hear your opinions.
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OliVBee from France

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